Margaret Cho presents the naked truth
by Joan Lipkin
11-23-2007

Margaret Cho, one of the more interesting and provocative performers of our time, has captured the public’s imagination since her breakthrough television show, “All-American Girl.” A professional performer for more than 20 years, she brings impeccable timing and radical analysis to issues of gender, race and sexuality with a fierceness rarely seen on stage. Off stage, in conversation at the Zipper Theatre in New York City, she was demure, deeply thoughtful and unflaggingly polite. Cho recently closed her group show, “The Sensuous Woman” after sell out runs in Los Angeles, Chicago and New York.

The show is a new vaudeville style cabaret including stand up comedy by Cho as well as transgender comedian Ian Harvey, sketch comedy by Diana Yanez and Kurt Hall of the Gay Mafia troupe and internet star Liam Sullivan aka Kelly. It also features stripping by a buff and tattooed by Cho as well as little person Selena Luna and the amply proportioned Miss Dirty Martini. Just your basic variety show, if a variety show includes stripping. I was also personally treated to a lap dance, er, rather a face and head dance by exotic dancer Ryan Huffington. Luck of the draw, I guess. I was sitting on the aisle.

The performance attracted a pleasurably diverse and raucous audience of gay male devotees, lesbians, straight young women, couples and punk musicians. Although the cost of the large cast probably makes an extended tour prohibitive, never say never when it comes to Margaret Cho. And who knows what may pop up on a DVD. In the meantime, a solo tour is in the works, with dates soon to be announced.

Joan Lipkin: Since your current show is about beauty in various forms, I have to say that you really look gorgeous. You are smoking hot.

Margaret Cho: Thanks. I feel pretty good. I love my tattoos and I feel very comfortable in my body now, which is something that is pretty unusual because I always had body issues growing up. I was always very uncomfortable in my skin. I’m 38, I feel really good and healthy. I’m just not fazed by being naked in front of people, I’m not fazed by anything anybody would say.

JL: What a great place to be. You have a lot of tattoos. When did you first get those?

MC: I started getting them when I was about 35 years old, and I was going through a lot of life changes, a lot about what I was going to do with my career. I think there is this impulse that happens with women in their 30s, especially in LA to get body modification, big plastic surgery. That wasn’t my thing, but I still had that impulse to want to change stuff. So I went into tattooing instead doing of the whole plastic surgery thing, and I’m glad because I really love it. It is a good alternative.

JL: Having seen your show and — well, a lot of you — I want to thank you for having your own breasts! That means a lot to me and to some other women.

MC: I’m trying to present a very natural body. Not that there is anything wrong with a surgically enhanced body, it’s just that I’ve seen that a lot. Natural bodies, we don’t see, or they’re not as sexualized. The show for me is really about bringing together all of these different beautiful women, and some men who identify as women, and also some women who identify as men. It’s just bringing together all of these beautiful people to gawk at them and enjoy it, and find a safe place to do that.

JL: I think of this group as Margaret’s Merry Pranksters. How did you assemble this crew? It’s a very interesting group.

MC: They are all interesting. Most of the people that are in this show are people I have worked with in the past or who have opened for me. I do a lot of mentoring, too. I take young comics under my wing and travel with them for a couple of years, and I get them really confident, to a place where they can headline and move on.

JL: Could you talk a little bit more about the notion of “gawking with pleasure?” Some people might ask, what is the difference between that and voyeurism, and can voyeurism be healthy?

MC: What I want to do is make an arena for people who are for the most part in our society invisible. And when they are seen, it is not always in the best context because of society. We are programmed to only idealize a certain kind of beauty. I wanted to showcase people who are real beauties, and much more beautiful than I see out there in the magazines or in the media or anything.

So here is a place where we have a show set up for them. They are coming into the visible, and being seen for the first time and in the best light possible. At the same time, it’s not like a freak show; it’s not like this sort of distancing thing. It’s not a cabinet of curiosities. It’s really like this marvelous experience, where we can enjoy their beauty, gawk at them safely without them being offended. I love that aspect of being the voyeur at a willing subject, as an exhibitionist.

JL: That’s very interesting because I think that Selena, who is a little person, really does own the stage when she’s up there. She’s stripping, and it’s not something that we’re used to seeing. But she really takes control of the stage, it’s incredible.

MC: Yes. It really is a healing thing to see somebody who is not necessarily the norm, but who is so captivating and so beautiful. And you go into this sort of mode, for me, that is like self-forgiveness. I realize that I can be beautiful, too. That I can feel beautiful. This person can feel beautiful with all the stuff that they have to deal with in society, and I can, too. Because she just gives you that permission, and I think that’s marvelous.

JL: It is. I remember when you were the first Korean-American actress to star in a prime time television show, and the way you were raked over the coals because you didn’t conform to Western cultural norms of beauty. Or rather, Hollywood norms. As you chronicle in “I’m The One I Want,” you lost 30 pounds overnight under duress with diet pills, and your kidneys shut down. I don’t know how you recover emotionally and physically from something like that. Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

MC: I’m really lucky to have survived something like that. I think that for a lot of young girls who suffer from eating disorders, it is really a death sentence or very difficult to recover. Very few do. So, part of my recovery from it is really to enjoy beauty and to surround myself with beauty, and to dance. To feel alive in my body and enjoy myself. And my recovery has been joyous because it’s led to projects like this, which is so much fun. Burlesque is a huge, big cure-all for a lot of things. It’s really something that can cure your mind, cure your body dysmorphia. And also it’s very political, it’s very feminist, and it’s very freeing.

JL: You’re such a political person, Margaret. I know you were deeply criticized for speaking out about the Bush Administration on your tour, “State of Emergency.” Where are you in terms of political activity these days? Are you involved in anything specifically?

MC: I’m involved in a lot of different things, and also really just watching and waiting. I think that there are a lot of things happening. I’m excited about the way things are changing. And I’m hoping that we elect a Democrat into the White House, I don’t know who that’s going to be. That’s a very difficult thing. I don’t know who I’m deciding on, either.

JL: You’re not sure?

MC: Oh no. I like Hillary and Barack Obama a lot, but they’re sort of not there for gay rights enough, and I don’t know when they will be.

JL: Speaking of LGBT rights, I know that you got married a couple years ago to a performance artist, Al Ridenour. You broke a lot of hearts, a lot of lesbian hearts and probably drag queens’ as well.

MC: I never thought about marriage very much and I never thought that I would get married. But when I did, I realized that marriage is important and something that made me want to work harder on equality rights for gay marriage. It made me realize that marriage is actually a very important part of life. It should be available to everybody who wants it, and the fact that our government excludes gays and lesbians is really criminal. Marriage is something that anchors me and I’m really happy there. I have a good life.

JL: Do you feel that it’s different for you than if you were living with somebody but still had a commitment?

MC: I don’t know, but if feels more solid, like we are a family. There are a lot of different kinds of family, and many different ways to define it. But, I just see that this is really something that everybody should be able to have.

JL: So does this mean that you are off the market? Are you monogamous?

MC: Well, no not necessarily off the market. Everything’s debatable. I don’t really believe in monogamy and I don’t believe in these sorts of solid labels like “gay” or “straight” or “bisexual” or “lesbian.” I could identify as bisexual but that would limit me because who I really love to be with are transgender people. Trans guys are my favorite.

JL: Female to male?

MC: Yeah, that’s my type. And that type has really come about because of their visibility in the last couple years, it’s very new. It’s kind of me coming out again. Because actually that’s my sexuality.

JL: That you are a woman who is attracted to transgender men? What about butch lesbians?

MC: Well, it is butch lesbians, too. But to me, they’re sort of the same thing, on the same continuum. I always loved butches. I’m kind of an old school femme that way. I’m very, very femme.

JL: That’s very, very clear by the way. I can totally read it.

MC: Oh good! Then you must feel like that I’m making that transition, too, from female to femme.

JL: Because you didn’t identify as femme at first?

MC: No, I didn’t understand before. That’s also what it’s coming into. As I get older, I realize that I’m more and more femme and that there is a transition process, from female to femme.

JL: And how do you define femme for yourself?

MC: It’s like being in the flow of the eternal feminine, of everything that is wonderful about women. It is both ancient and really contemporary.

JL: Yes. And what is it about FTM trans men that you find so attractive? Is it the playing with gender, and not conforming so much to societal norms?

MC: Yes and I think it is that independence that is so hot. And that’s why I love butch lesbians, because they have the courage to be who they are. This world really, really resents women who do not tow that line. This culture, our society, really wants to predetermine the destiny of all women, and wants us to be in this one box. You know, we have to be a certain way. So, the courage to stand up outside of that and to be butch and to be trans to me is so exciting and so sexy and beautiful.

JL: I understand and I know a lot of people who feel the way that you do. I’ve heard you described in so many ways, as brazen, as groundbreaking, and of course as really, really, funny. But when I think of you, I think of courage. I think you’re enormously courageous.

MC: Oh, that’s nice, thank you.

JL: How do you feel about that?

MC: I don’t know, I don’t think about it in that way. I love what I do. This is a great job and really fun. And this show in particular is fun for me because it’s allowing me to work with other people because I don’t do that very much. It’s a chance to play.

JL: You have said in the past at several points that you are a solo gig, that you do your own thing. And now you’re in the sand box with the other kids. What is that about?

MC: It’s a chance to do something different including some re-invention and to enjoy that. I’m also enjoying other performers and just sharing what I have.

JL: Right, and with your visibility, you can bring other people to the fold. You always have so much going on. What is next for you?

MC: I have sort of vague notions that I’m going to learn other languages. I wanted to do this for a long time, to do stand up comedy in other languages. This show is a little easier because it’s smaller bites, a little bit smaller sections. I don’t know, it may be doable.

JL: That is fascinating, that you would learn your sections in French or German, for example?

MC: Yeah.

JL: What about simultaneous translation?

MC: Yeah, that would be possible, too. But I would love to try to do it in another language. Eddie Izzard learned French so that he could perform in France, and I find that so cool. I think he’s so cool.

JL: That’s amazing, I had no idea. I’m a big fan of his as well. What else is influencing you these days?

MC: A lot of music. I had a great time this summer; I was on the “True Colors” Tour. I had a lovely experience with all the different people I met: Cindy Lauper and the band, the Cliks, who are actually coming tonight for the show. But I’m really inspired by all the stuff that’s going on. Like, with that tour especially, because it was all these great queer stars, people like Rufus Wainwright and the Gossip. It was really tremendous. Or Rosie O’Donnell. She’s awesome. She really inspires me. She just opened a gallery show with these amazing paintings. It was really incredible. We went last week, and I was really moved. She just does everything, it’s really amazing.

JL: She really doesn’t limit herself to any genre, does she?

MC: No, I love it. I read her book last week and it was really touching. I was so excited because she does everything. And on the “True Colors” Tour, she played the drums, too, which is really cool.

JL: So you’re interested in having no boundaries, in a sense.

MC: Yes, being that expansive and that courageous, and to have that much fun. I think it’s great.

JL: Is anything off limits to you in terms of comedy? Is there anything you think is patently not funny? Or not subject for humor?

MC: I don’t know; I’m not sure. There’s things I don’t understand. Well, this whole thing with Ann Coulter, I don’t understand what she’s talking about. She’s supposed to be funny but I don’t understand. What does she mean? Stuff like that kind of humor, I don’t get.

JL: Yes. Well, maybe she feels she has to say things that are deliberately contrary and offensive to break through. Because there is so much cacophony, there’s so many people and voices out there.

MC: I think that’s probably it, but it’s so offensive and odd. I remember, before 9/11, I used to do the Bill O’Reilly Show with her, and they were both so nice. And so it just freaks me out, because I’m like, “When did these people become like this?” It’s really strange.

JL: Sometimes I think that when certain kinds of people’s popularity starts to fade, the way that they try to raise it is to fire another shot. I think the things she says are outrageous but that’s what she wants. Because here we are, talking about her. Everybody’s talking about her. But I would rather talk about you! So what else is it that you would like people to know about you? Besides the fact that you are so beautiful, and very lady and femme-like sitting here in this little Pucci-esque thing. Where did you get this? What is this?

MC: This is my dress, it’s Tea Bags, a designer who I love. It’s just a tunic, and shorts. Because I don’t know if it’s fall or summer. I can’t figure it out.

JL: So you have sort of fall-ish colors on here with baby cowboy boots that look like they’re a size four. And your hair looks great, and you’ve got your false eyelashes. You’ve really got your look going on.

MC: Thanks.

JL: Well, sometimes, a girl just needs her false eyelashes. So what would you like people to know about where you are at this point in your life?

MC: I hope that they know that I am very happy, and that I am doing some very great work.

JL: And I get the sense that you are trying to ask people to find their own happiness, too.

MC: Yes, definitely.

JL: Thank you, Miss Cho.

MC: Thank you!